Inflection Point with Lauren Schiller; #87 Do Not Push to Aapb; What Trans Women Can Teach Cis Women - Daniela Petruzalek, Diversity Activist

people today an inflection point i love people open the door for me sometimes investment losses because i'm a big woman that same way smaller tomatoes trying to grab my groceries in their daily wages as necessary to re allocate meet transgender diversity activist daniella thanks man

man man a software engineer from has no authority he's been on the sales side and is now a software engineer all male dominated environments same as here in the us as he always tried to fit in every muslim draped i was like over exaggerate it because i was it something i can look like the diverse i am not so our side to be the opposite and yeah as a live mix with gopher balls they look yeah i do those mistakes but that was in direct conflict with his she really wise even growing up the way i got

that would tolerate natural ground i felt that i should play with the girls' butts and i was stuck with the bias then because the next act only in their growth and i did a lot of the things that the boys or the area so i felt like a harmless place and that that is getting various members that have been ruined the thing is daniella has lived most of her life as a male that three years ago she took the leap to transition to her true female self which is super brave for starters i did mr rosen and occasional i was one of them and weiss's and they're at their sexual mail nowadays

i'm a lesbian and i had to because it's everything that i had to learn how to deal with my on internal presidents of both men many years church and also not only that is now competing in that same very male failed as a woman there was one time in my life i was unemployed and was after my visit and took me six months to get a new job in the day when they'll send resumes as a man then even if you aren't fit for the world it will call you about you were a clinician resume of the woman they expect you to have like a hundred percent off distills a request is our availability wanted him to start talking with you daniela calls herself a diversity activist and

she wants to use her experiences and make the tech industry truly inclusive starting with something as simple as the words we use for instance oh it's a palpable fan as an r man but is only a heavy ward says that dupont was one she uses in the conversation with them and that's just part of this march to speak at the lesbians conference she'd been publishing her experiences and medium dot com and she and i had a chance to sit down together lawsuits here daniel it'll mean nothing was off limits so here we get so i had my bike i have always been there now may it's not something that i've transformed into it was aunt and some clothes and the people say it was a huge flaws are choices to change and it is monitoring mr shawn right i was born like this so i'm just small it's their

lies a hot water how i felt inside all my life so even though i transitioned i was thirty one when a speech to me home in the best dancer hauser firm as most of us the now because i will was hours there other people can see that's what i was always there so i didn't want to have like the best friends is like a little cover and that's very expensive so i had to to supplant things say no way that'll will be comfortable in my career i will have hazardous says ammo will be eligible so soon so what does this into sales so i've gotten much like a dizzying levels in qom so on state was nehemiah murderer now maybe some builders i

was like two years on the job one of the sides tried to open fire on house come on those because they are our song now for an arm and then the ottomans and then but was really in brazil is it did you ever talk with anyone in your family about going away you know i don't actually has been my older brother rebels in like physically so i've grown to be of irish write in a kid because i was being beat him all the time then that city hired them but the way i see now is that they didn't have time to do with my gender and then stay some of them because of a lawyer to it like surviving some that they

laid off things birds there is a third of your brother my brother actually died a few years ago it was a really complicated the relationship and an end and idaho and now i have a competition in the race to shield them so that's a really sad story i guess some of us are a very new meaning as the no in that incident solution they say sir do you like to do everything really well in your life and in that included the transition that you needed to wait until you had enough money you don't have to do it so how much do you want talk about what you done laughs is a mountain book actually so i was playing like flies live further surgeries did the ceo and a diehard just glad to do that and wrestling plans i still didn't go the us

are asked nosek so ra scion started that's him yeah that's a measure of gun sticking his neck it's not just about the money it's about the timing and about repairing other people interacted you and bats was did the thing i was most worried about is the position i know i will have a darn and that's caused the scariest part the process how will other people see me after i transitioned and we have a lot of prejudice towards the center and people in brazil so i was really scared and this one asked do is ozone percentage i r a call back then that was the company files working with a new mentor is a shot is because they had the arm bears its policy and its

discrimination one is in retirement i was i did a background check to see which of those company is i'm going to work with that has some kind of policy to protect me for murder i also i was working in sales in sales is our job in the male dominated world it's nine dollars in us is the same the same thing here absolutely tanked and sales and then and lloyd now those people would see me after i said because i was one of them wyatt says sees gender and their sexual mail because of the nod as i am and as my muslim but i was on the other side of the spectrum so i was one of them so i'm glad to get really carefully walk

i will do numbers that so i can feel safe june to become our one and the first thing i did lana del narco us to which ousted him head of human resources and i knew it he had had to help me because the policy of the company so iceland is out and get his head all day one you're ready you you can drool bizarre where you are really protected by the company policies ok the prize policies are one thing people are others anyway so it doesn't work because i have a policy maybe you can be fired for something you used to be able to do it differently so that was not enough for me and say i was how to indian men had a femur reserves is like two months after john are dying are ago but it took mead sure years actually physicians so what was i doing you know i'll just i'm i was getting brick brad i was making other

people trying to find like the safe network maybe the most people that are good for us and help of this man that there was all other thing that we're only as well is that was a client facing a position called my customers seem year after there's isn't that so yeah i was really scared athletes yeah that ufos is that but that may send the company but when i was outside that was really crazy but the band i should the customer side of things was do is islam and i hadn't oh with me this is an inflection point i'm lauren shuler my guest is daniela patches i like a software developer and diversity activist from brazil to hear more stories of how women rise at subscribe to the inflection point podcast and apple podcast

really a public stature and npr y and we're back powers and furious thank you manning

will i learn so iran this is an inflection point in talking with danielle eye patches i suffer developer and diversity activist for rizzo he's written about her experiences as a transgender woman well one of the things that you've read in your essay anne meehan was i was getting to say as far as being treated as a woman yeah his value mean as though you're referring to know is they do it differently the first moments it's hard to have to separate what is relevant is and why it is their reward day lue feeling awful be a woman yeah sexism as ally so today i'm really is as a woman i have some stuff in iraq but i'm learning every day because you've been a woman up all your eyes so the first thirty years of my life being a woman should know what was to be a woman song

i was learning does on the fly in the last two or three years i look back and see i was getting exactly what i ask him for nato why it's so it's getting done that is arranging to me in sicily intact where we are it is not a male dominated field how does it feel being female and for me it's amazing that he had hidden ins and they knew you had been the now your whole life but now other people feel as iago that's going to say i didn't notice and there was this problem with choices but i didn't choose to be there the times has sunk to be out a woman called ecstatic that because it is it's a fitting in its deficit like if i wanted to and is a live version and it's just a dozen men battled these

words i'm the happiest person i can be right now with all the challenges with everything as they seem or does was the best thing of getting my dive because now i'm not i'm all i'm a person and i was not before before ayers was it all the time i was nine ian parton part of my life and i think this fan of mean completes its like that the most awesome thing that happen much so was your original ball too be accepted as a woman without a trans parent but you're saying that that didn't foul complete el exactly so so what is the difference would you say in presenting as a trans woman are presenting as a woman that's a third is so i'm going to the grocery store that bad does a mother know the first literate there's a woman from editors part but did get frozen apart as a lot of the stigma

especially in being in brazil we are associated with this follow us is facing low level jobs a crime is in good bad stuff i didn't go on to anything of those things us a statement me that nasa people think of when they think of a chance without an exile him and those customers are going to united states if the same thing or a cause of thing brazil bad bets and in the top ten i don't want to be assisted to a den of those things because i lived a pretty normal life i think so i have a job i have two cats i have my friends there so i'm a normal person but something like this and i live my life the first part of my life hiding an important part of me and then i was at the vision of it all are part of me so

kind of it was bad at it as it was where i was getting the social interaction was i do i'll wanted to have like people were treating us along but i was not complete so that's why i've decided to do a second position and come out of the closet and also i felt that i was doing so you know all about making toward a better place for research and i've kind of trauma does sing to my michelle trudeau about this kind of stuff and i imagine the open to be like come on no impossible to his guns this was mine nina you got to lug daniela for making it her mission to talk snow candidly about her experience coming out and transitioning or willingness to be so open about herself also gives us a chance to examine what

society expects about his men and women and that made me wonder having been in the body of both genders but are experiences teach us about equality and how to achieve it when you look at your behavior presenting as a man how to educate women i knew it well like i said that i was living in denial for the first human boston first job a kid is vacant years of my life and i pfizer be demanding this man possible ever hour like la is like martial arts i want to be like i'm a really bad guy and i was really are our own head and every muslim trade i was like over

exaggerate it because i was it something i can look like that the bars i am also assigned to be the opposite and yeah as ai so we are awful but the streets of rural women badly it back then that's not yeah i did those mistakes and so have you been on the receiving end of that kind of treatment and how does that feel like you have you know brings em those are different perspective that they were of course adam why did then i'd try showed to them and as church a true fight the word disgusting saw know like amber using my voice know because i'm not a person show she cites changes and it does this all mindset of cultivate a woman the riots and when a scene rom and then something remarkable that out and to them no i

hail what they're doing there ms maffei of song do they insist on a must root root about a big low wages and but now it's all a commute can you give me an example of either when you step then the guard or you set for yourself snow was as those sentences have laws that happened something like this i mean sign show overall and so as a manager to behave better and one example of that this kind of thing i did akbar ok now suffered a number of men to convey shown last year that the audience it was composed by ninety percent of men over two hundred and fifty people and i was talking about how to so embrace diversity and inclusion so you can imagine that there was not that the bearer respect and choose to see either technical coffers that that's the kind of activism i do

man it didn't do with this challenge went to something like that is true bounce a burning away be and actually understand when we got a little bit of a business for an interview i feel they send all of what kind of thing i couldn't help to chose says and there were men charging bros and no i have the bottle of the more than men i know i am his and his example because there are some things we do we need to save for his heirs won't waste at the public financing our mandate but do so you have the words that do about was one she uses in the chorus assured the man we know feminism and hire man yeah because they see light does like a bad thing babe understand it and they're low at almost immediately become defensive and they will

protect the shower so it is so i my place like yemen you have all those cells like john a man that is again say those two words it is the same misery you look at their smartphones and the something else so the day i got the differences is that you know to be politic minute show biz mart and played the game the way they play so then you can do some convincing that is so what have you learned has worked to be able to have a conversation that will be her first of all when i talk about the first english all men the whole truth everything out this message is that alcohol to treat women they're not going to sell this because i think the virus and it was always about getting everyone better so when i sailed diversity and then like you were famine is american us utah man i'd like to show them how

it's better from them to have this kind of word phrases they have this right buzz off dear price for ill one that i am there was groped end they are afraid actually to expose that is because they expose on budgetary idea they grope ever on nelson the global giant like bash is that members and those are your immediate you're a lawyer speaking and dust like cognitive diversity but still digesting the boss and if you have a diverse mindset five are on the house but doing well goats made like i love like just on the guys that thinking process and so the bus apart like made by vested the us so colleges kind of example to say houston if the fireflies for old for a different kind of the roasted including women including

lgbt people including racial minorities you're always crazy and better environment where your ideas your liver as a deal also be accepted psalm in then everybody wins fenn is not a fight for women's dominated oregon we're just looking for a quiet it isn't so i'm an weapon is pushback do you get when you sell it that way it's really hard to get a bill it was bad this is a back on that paulk was something about the grass that i present to you had some numbers and it was a bit all cost taylor didn't have anything else complain about the scale of went off that the end of the day this is really par for a woman should always comes back to the caf and a

bit about the idea of femininity some would say that being feminine is it's a social construct that it says this idea it's all made up and we've just been treated to their clients every one group from another i'm completely and businesses there but i think most of those people are entitled in cells as by murray will agree with me because by urbanism is like good the way it was seen nor does like feminine and muslim what makes sense to me to transition dollars it if it didn't believe that there was another side and it's yeah as i i think that comes and it reduces of their first deer when i say that it's not about making everyone people is a lot and raising our differences and the same thing for me is mr leno the bottom up to be a well mom are men and gender i'm not generous

important is how those contracts which dates on their main different ways where have liked and it's a really beautiful to see they went back and we got a tower and i don't think like i know throw a societal will be the best place why did that rise though i'd been by this is i understand those people that's been pfizer's know throw and i don't want to take their rights to do so both rely to be being treated as a woman who what do you think about then the norms around beauty and sexiness that you know women learned from day while and that is you know whether it's three years ago as your day while are you even looking at all your life but in magazines and on the media have guests like the nests i'm out there on our style fights are so good the best that i do know i like to feel beautiful words i don't like extremes emitting so why

sue girls like no i'm not i mean because they want to be a famine something that the launches a bad guys i think when it gets some kind of balancing that it's ok our everyone wants to be beautiful and i've very phrase as it bloomed six bars and running because i want to be fit but that's me i don't think everyone some should try to fit in this band that's never on somebody is under way in the film by other men i don't think one size fits all know that you are of to have fully come into yourself what do you love about being a woman also many things and forest as when you're a man you have your how you're feeling is all the time you know june july you can express your emotional intense miles from other men in devoting thought wires my intimate but i can express no i like someone i can smile as a parasite and be friendly

and nobody will simulate deliberate mean you're wrong way because of this so i'm so i'm more opened like storefront i chose i think that's the main thing fish there something here in the united states and maybe the silver cell where women are told to smile by men and we he thinking maybe i should start telling more men to smile and fiona hill now yeah yeah i listened to contest them getting that the context of the ad as in brazil to be offensive as well was not the villages and an end and i hobbled really truthful to have expressing your feelings and normally the actual what do you feel like if you have the opportunity to take the part says being a woman that you want and leave behind the ones that you don't you know

i kind of brouhaha after wally as asylum i know can say that i'm a hundred percent women because of yeah best of some stuff about my history and thing as a man i yeah that was a good one i would keep his lunch hour so i'm living on both sides and i am now a lot i haven't really i have summarized by i'm bob is before us we need this question some of them haven't seen really thrilled then they like the reason man stuff like that divorce him that women them go but that's wrong actually women are marrying and irrational though and they want so but suicide says like this is what is a male trait but it's not actually it's not learn that i don't write all through to a question of age this is an inflection point i'm lauren shuler my guest is daniela patches i like

a software developer and diversity activist from rizzo which will be back right after break no no i'm lauren seller and this is an inflection point i'm talking with daniela

patches i like a software developer and diversity activist from rizzo isn't about her experiences as a transgender woman subscribe to the inflection point podcast and hear more of the us and more resonant story is an apple podcast maria public stature an npr one you wrote in your essay about ah suddenly people are opening doors for yo you behaving in a gentlemanly toribio but then on the other hand that you were not necessarily getting promotions that you were raising your hand for so you can't and you're experiencing both sides of it you don't have to treat you better because you're one and also getting worse because your web and yeah i mean this is seeing we did this as like devoted as i grew phrase our flowers that need a bit they can calf then we don't save course was we don't talk a lot sex things like that then i thought oh my god how sanctions got so far it doesn't know it really know what the women are and and i love

and people open the door for me but sometimes it's really unknown says because i'm a big woman an ambulance as a devouring our listeners on and see me but then really big as st men like wales martin made thank you my pleasure it is a heavy but this letter from al qaeda was on the other hand yeah people tend to look at the warm like professionally end gets way harder to prove your valor and people realize you for like being able to go out at job then dan before i looked go on a time in my life i was unemployed and was after matters is come and take me six months to get a new job the day when they'll

send resumes as a man even if you aren't fit for the world it will call you about you but the limits on the resume of the woman they expect you to have like a hundred percent off the skills of a request is our availability won't even this starts talking with you and i feel that they want the boss some batman i'll always ways to learn and things but do on mondays and is she got there audie it does is as good as it gets so wanton growth and that's really but is it wise that's why women can learn on the job while i doing it sounds like to be overly preparing know when men dance so i must have but some low rated nice accomplishments officer says its name but it took me like three times desperate or more so it's it's been so interesting it's like doing is that is a word

that went to resume lending isn't the twins it's worse than that because i'm older and i have like way more difficult to get things done but if you look at me i'm december some ads have the same skills move my skills now are even better than the past but life was easier but that did i think that with this proves that women are treated differently i have seen both sides of the women's side is harder should have you got any backlash from either win an absolute monarch i remember and some minor comments were nothing is undone was dance know anything inside june to measure designed although summers

song when i get salmon is monday and then they lied to their roles mean like cows while or some time that this kind of low when i usually criticize me a word it's a really hard nowadays to send comments like that we we sort of tension is that when you what do you see as your brawl in the feminist mcmahon tv iq cover all and that meant yeah i'm trying to have a whole world birds so is that i exploiting this fact of movies and to do drills sides and i'm also find joe to be mr romano saw their toes and a woman i really felt though when i was a decision that i was meeting a reference so anyone they are another i decide to beat his reference for other people because and you know like i said i'm not i've accomplished saw some rather significant things

they know over the past year and to zoom has been has been some really amazing so far end i want to use is uprooted trees by other friends and i am not as in a woman to have tremendous hand and the reason there is anything on my wrist like squares then they can do to help other women too to fight for her dreams i want to be there for him for them then that's a really on a personal mission for me and how do you feel a says women can help chancellor men achieve their dreams first accepting us it's a barren mayonnaise says their general women that the ceo was as a win in the eyeball and for years there so not so long ago in the law how is this in iran all boats in us and are people talking about the bathroom bill is the fact that religious

one choose the battle was the problem the riots began this icon for something really different and add another we're discriminating yeah it's you so we are women that just accepted that that's the late season though women who can how verdi's like arkansas they're aware man do find that doesn't know a big deal here i just fine too though the bathroom of thousands at a man that code those such a big deal and that's when i'm one of them managing the worst things i've seen happening new recent years is there anything that you feel like you i think you said your you're basically three years old and i love i love the wave and that is there is there anything that you want to learn from and says well man or other trans

women they feel like you need to master at that would help you that something is when they're most natural things like the phrases i don't know i'll just make a date that's really crazy and i don't know if there is that and like my friend had that argument in his ears but i didn't have that that may be an ostensibly mostly had our name i think women are very strong man they inspire me a park lands and places and their women like how did you do it does in our yard i was only here for two years and that is really crazy so i really do you always buy me in some way or another so another thing you ever in a bag is this e u utah never clear perspective but i wonder if he also feel it from a personal perspective that when you switched from an hour are all as a salesperson to

are all in software they felt this imposter syndrome yeah the thing within gaza similar was like man when you feel like you know words the frog yes you are capable of doing something that you feel like you're not get the ball off and somehow people lacks polls do you and you lose everything that but yeah sometimes they're having this kind of decision side phrases coming out thousand times and only sent a formal be more old age get mauled most of men that doesn't mean that has been really helpful wayne diminishing earth that it matters much to my career i feel nothing process in la is like relive what mark o'mara frequent women and gender minorities and i don't remember anything like this before my decision and that that someday i'll

reflect a job when i'm preparing to stock and budden says her name like accomplishing something as i know we're starting to loan as the degree of all i'm off his lawyers say you can do it genocide to him or what other people are saying about me and about the void thats one of did the tricks i'm doing i don't like you just you know so pretty and so now i see as an another thing is dealing with failure i can learn how to deal with failure is the most important thing because if you aren't afraid of failing then the boss assume that i actually and kind of losing business it's think so i've learned how to become a prayer song that fails arts and letters like rises again and try and repeat and try to fail fast and recover faster that's a resilience and

it has been working with me for just an awful things that happened to me ella's name and you listen to and although the fabric starts that subtitle about global gives all its abandoned like the most prominent people in their communities man i was in japan the next chapter but i think you know the lopez's ok so really big thing and i was i just had those signs all well people aren't want me start with the next shopper so and go insane let them expire and this time showed just up listening to this was in the senate for all their start looking on the line what are the signs yash a lot has been written about when and valuing x or an all judgment of themselves more than valuing their internal judgment of themselves and it sounds that is a listen to that entire noise the departed internal

demons telling you can do it and you say that you started feeling this way after your transition why do you think that was i thing the big mostly because this kind of change is that happening to present shows it was the first time most part every my life and then no no so for a calm lake and and like isn't really a big bag of evidence is often why i'm not that we're not going to do and i was rejected so many times the sun sent out hundreds of resumes to get no answer and so that kind of thing really builds up man you don't exhibit those are the norm and that women live the senate resumes all the time with it and they don't get happy islam the same rate as men does so that that really affects the coffins and dare and they're really good muslim and they had been maimed are very capable and they don't get the

feedback that they need i think is lack of feedback was odd no major cause of thing faso's interim so society saying that you are in the world and that's very powerful and you will win it but so when it showed john is on a jury my walkman go there we don't know they're all networking for instance might be by loosening resumes was never a good strategy but we measure ourselves but to do the results of those so why not let us start networking nato amending companies owed lie so dakar them they made a dozen opportunity whether think maybe you're for me for for the vault and best thing that man does all the time and women i haven't seen me doing so much and it has better results you'd be talked about wanting to be a role model and a reference point so

why now why you decided to start sharing your story now making a real effort to go out on the speaking circuit and come here talk to me and right right as is that brazil is no one else that they didn't the dog of kong conte know it off my head it doesn't their keynes and i don't want to include a number of song i do that the film critic often than not i was in a safe place before and like going out and opens by talking about this so what made you feel like you're in a safe place i think it did there were a clinician and i am having founded a community a man then the company are working with mariah knowledge none none like my one of my friends my network in my best moments i'm molly in a moment blizzard and it's what's the best advice that you've ever been given about how to find a strain to be yourself

that's a hard one i believe it was like that and that's the i think that the biggest problem in that dallas at my fad and that he had no role models and i miss it bad very much so you didn't get any grade nine on how to find the strength to be yourself but it seems like coming into yourself has been the most important thing that you've done for yourself what what advice would you give to others who are trying to find the strength to be able to do that i'm most aid no i think this was a campaign by some boat that had this does lola it gets better yes and i really love this phrase it gets better and to do it it does so being truthful to yourself really pays off is the best thing a person can do for themselves is the

other people on to this on this can be really stressful and find friends if needed i wanna give daniela because i like a lot of credit for coming on this program and talking so candidly about her experiences that others going through something similar had a reference to make many great activist daniella strives to be the person she needed when she was struggling at the same time a gigantic told me he's just the beginning of her journey remember she's only three years old twenty years i could use some guidance or stocks and this makes me wonder are there other newly transitioned transgender women ship out there in need of says gender women

to act as the sisters and patriarchal world and i wonder how many says gender women would benefit from the knowledge trans women bring with them about life on the other side of the gender equation here's the thing about living at an inflection point as we hear one other story as we discovered new ways to rise that some of the stress that by embracing archers thousand that's right i for when im excited to have braved women like danielle out there as they march forward together appealing to daniel's essay on a wednesday at radio dot org this is an inflection point and more insular no one in three

and there again you're right we're on facebook at and you can follow me on twitter and kelly sayler to find out more about the guests you heard today that importantly review dot org dr oliver public theater you're going to reveal her story editor in managerial were a leader or into your learn it

if you're enjoying this conversation covers more than mukasey women's voices for an incentive as an inflection point supporter we reviewed it it has been

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