PowerPoint; Paul Robeson; Miles Davis

Good evening and welcome to PowerPoint, broadcasting live from Atlanta, Georgia. I'm Carmen Burns, Activist, Actor, Athlete. When speaking of Renaissance men of the 20th century, one man stands alone, revered in sports, theater, and film, Paul Robison accomplished a multitude of successes, unprecedented for a black American. The third black student to attend Rutgers, New Jersey State University, he was an all -American on the football field, an outstanding scholar in the classroom. His performance as a fellow in the classic Shakespearean play was captivating. During segregation and southern lynchings, he spoke out and challenged political heavyweights. Consequently, he was accused of being a communist. Popular and profound, imminent, and embattled, the life of a true icon as told by his son. Revealing the undiscovered Paul Robison, a conversation with Paul Robison Jr. This is PowerPoint and we're back in a moment. Healthcare reporting on PowerPoint is funded by the National Speaking of Women's Health Foundation, educating

women to make personal decisions about personal healthcare and well -being on the web at speakingofwomen'shealth .com. PowerPoint is funded in part by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and the National Legacy Foundation. This is PowerPoint, a production of WCLK FM, a broadcast service of Clark Atlanta University. Production and broadcast of PowerPoint is made possible by a grant from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and by the National Legacy Foundation, a non -profit organization committed to enhancing, preserving, and restoring the legacy and history of life in America. And so when they come for him from Venice.

This is PowerPoint, an information -age clearinghouse for news, issues, and ideas that impact the African American community, the nation, and the world. And so when they come for him from Venice, he speaks and says, Fuck you, a word or two before you go. I have done to state some service and they know it. No more of that. I pray you in your lessons, when you shall these unlucky deeds relate, speak of me as I am. The year 1944, live from Carmen, the unmistakable baritones, as it all, Shakespeare's FM has performed by Paul Wilson. Welcome

back to PowerPoint. I'm Carmen Burns. When asked by friend Harry Melafon, he was worth going in government accusations that plagued his career, Paul Wilson remarked, Make no mistake, there is no aspect of what I have done that wasn't worth it. Although we may not have achieved all the victories we set for ourselves, may not have achieved all the victories and all the goals we set for ourselves, beyond the victory itself, infinitely more important was the journey. Serial words from one of the most influential men ever, and perhaps no one better than his only son, Paul Robeson Jr., to capture and provide intimate details about the life of Paul Robeson. Joining PowerPoint tonight, scholar, author and lecturer, Paul Robeson Jr., and part one of a two volume biography on his father. As always, we invite you to phone in with your questions or comments. Our PowerPoint hotline number is 1 -800 -360 -1799 -1 -800 -360

-1799. Mr. Robeson, good evening, and thanks for being with us. Good evening, I'm pleasure to be with you. Now prior to this book, there have been others written about your father. Now why now, 25 years after his passing, did you decide to write this one? Because very little is known about the man himself. A great deal has been documented about his life and times, about his career, his achievements, but the man himself, his motivations, his roots, his spiritual strength, his crucial decisions and the reasons behind them, and the kind of person he was, are very little known. It was timely to do that because the interest in my father grew significantly as a result of many celebrations marking the centennial of his birth in 1998, and I decided to wait quite a long time after his death to achieve a certain distance, both historically and in order to

evaluate not only his personal achievements per se, but to view, be able to view that against the flow of history and then go back and tell his story as a personal story in real time, in the time in which he actually lived, which is a difficult thing to do, and to be quite frank, I felt I needed the time to become a much better writer than I was even 10 or 5 years ago before attempting something this important. Now what are some of the misconceptions that you wanted to clear up about your father? I didn't set out to clear up any misconceptions. I approached it from the point of view of presenting him as he was in his own words through his own eyes, and through the eyes and experiences of those closest to him, and people, and the responses of the public at the time, and

let him speak for himself. His own personality, his own story is more than enough to refuse any misconceptions, so I just put up my mind any other things that had been written about him and focused on him on presenting his portrait accurately. But in the process there are some myths that you do kind of clear up because a lot of people fall throughout the over the years thought that he actually joined the Communist Party or was a Communist. Well that's actually, it's been known that that's false, for some time other writers have indicated that, but the media has attempted to persist with that image. No, he never was a Communist, never conceived of joining the Communist Party or any other political party, because he was first and foremost an artist, not a political activist or a political figure, to him culture was far more important than ideology.

That is not to detract from the fact that as an artist he was one of the most powerful political figures of his time, but he was never an organization man in any sense in that he was quite unlike say Martin Luther King Jr., or Malcolm X, or Marcus Garvey. He was always an artist being political, never a political person who happened to be an artist. 1 -800 -360 -1799 is our number. We're talking with Paul Robson Jr., who has written part one of a two -part volume on the undiscovered Paul Robson, Bernard in Baltimore. Good evening. Good evening, Paul Poin. Hi, go ahead. Good evening, Bernard. Good evening, Dr. Robson. It's a joy, a profound pleasure to listen to you, but I think for me it's really a necessity that we have intimate knowledge of African -Americans of this caliber. I'm thinking

that in case we had something like an institute of human development for African Americans, Malcolm X, me and one, and your father being the other one. Malcolm, who started out with some significant potential, but experienced a developmental detour, and your father, who I believe experienced a more direct and full development, and I believe it would really be a great benefit if we could understand what were the psychosocial developmental factors that went into bringing and developing this Renaissance man that we can claim. Well, first of all, he had many mentors. For example, the most important spiritual and scholarly mentor was his own father. From him, he got his cultural roots, his religious traditions and beliefs, his sense of both

divine gift and his talents were divine gift, not simply something to use to enrich himself with, and a sense of divine mission on behalf of the freedom of his people. My grandfather was an escape slave as well as a minister. From his older brother Ben, who was also a minister, he got probably the most important athletic coaching. Dad always said that pound for pound, the greatest athlete in the Wilson family was not himself, but his brother Ben, who could have been a great football player, professional or baseball professional. From his eldest brother, William, who was 17 years older than he, he got a sense of intellectual curiosity, of wanting to find out not only the answer, but where the answer came from, and alternative to

answers, etc. A way of thinking broadly, an intense intellectual curiosity. As an overall cultural and intellectual mentor, I'd say it was by all odds W .V. Du Bois, both from the point of view of culture, ideology, and a way of looking at the world. As an actor, he looked to the greatest, certainly African -American, actor of all time, one of the greatest of all time, Dad always said that's Ira Oldridge. As a base, he looked to the greatest base of the time, Dad always said, well, this man is number one, but he acknowledged that he was number two. A great Russian -based singer named Childo Shalyapin, who had a style of singing, extension of the speaking voice, that I wouldn't say copied, but learned a great deal from. And

I would say if you want a modern comparison of who among the people we know today best, was my father most like as political activist if we must use those terms. I say he was closest to Martin Luther King, Jr., the same religious roots, the same Southern tradition, the same dedication to African -American freedom as the number one priority above any ism. And although Dad certainly didn't wear the collar in a sense, he was a lay preacher, and he used his singing voice, and speaking voice, but especially his singing voice to do that. I say that's where his roots came from, out of the Southern Church, in this case, Amy, Zion, slave tradition. I want to thank Bernard for his call. Our number is 1 -800 -360 -1799 -1 -800

-360 -1799. Rick, in Atlanta, good evening. How are you? Great, go ahead. Good evening. Mr. Roperson, my name is Rick Odom, and I was calling not with an intellectual comment, but rather more social. Are you the same Roperson that grew up in the Manhattanville houses? Yes, I am. Okay, then you might remember the name. Well, I'm the son, the father. I had two children, maybe, the three generation. Who were you in relation to David? I'm his father. Okay, then you might know me. David and I went to Stymis and High School together in New York City, and he played football and I ran track, and we were neighbors in the Manhattanville houses several, several years ago. And I heard your voice. I recognized your grandfather's voice. I called my parents to see if they would be able to tune in and listen. Well, that was my father's voice, you heard? Yes, yes, yes. Okay. Yes, yes. I'm sorry, I said Grandpa. That's all right. No, that's all right. And you just want to say hello and see how the family is doing, and maybe figure a way that I can communicate

with David. I haven't seen him since High School. You know, that's back in the, well, in the 60s. It's been many, many years, yeah, yeah. A long time. I remember you from Manhattanville those were wonderful days for the family. Sadly, sadly, our son David died two years ago. Wow. I'm certainly sorry to hear that. Untimely death, but... Wow, almost on my father's anniversary in 1993. Sorry to hear that. Yes, I'm so sorry. Yes. Listen, thank you so much for calling in. Sorry, it was bad news for you. Yes, it was, but good news to hear his dad and know that God is still blessing him and I'm sure the rest of the family as well. Mr. Robeson was a pleasure to hear from you. And hopefully, one day we can connect it and hunk up again. Thank you. Thank you, Paul Rick. One 800 -360 -1799 is our number. We're talking with Paul Robeson Jr., who has written a biography about his father, the very prolific

Paul Robeson. Now, you mentioned that, of course, his number one influence, I guess, was growing up with his father, but you mentioned in the book that he was reluctant to talk about his dad. Not at all. I said that his father was very reluctant to talk about his slavery days, and that there are some, I guess, the personal aspects. The dad was quite a private person, so in public, he didn't talk very much about his personal life, or the emotional bonds and sometimes conflicts within the family, but he was very close to his father, and in conversations with me, he gave me some insights both into his experience with his father, and shared a great deal

with me as I grew older about his personal life, the conflicts, the pitfalls, the things to look out for, and I would say gave me a great deal of inner strength by encouraging to be me, to be my own person, as his father did him, that is to become an individual and not always be looking to the father figure for decisions and for what to do. Gee, dad, if you were here, what would you do? He told me to figure that out for myself, learning from my father and grandfather, but not being dependent on their worldview, time to grow up in the independent, and I think being such a powerful person as he was, it was extraordinary that he had the compassion and the insight to empower others, to encourage me to be my own person and not to try to

copy him. The most extraordinary thing I think about him was that he was a man of immense power, and yet great gentleness, which is a quality which sometimes we don't value enough. It seems like it's just such a powerful voice and such a demanding personality. Well, I would say demanding, but just demanding presence. What was it like growing up as his son? Why should I describe that? That is, his voice was one of the actually softest bass voices and richest bass voices. He was not a shelter. He didn't break glasses at 60 feet or that kind of thing. He had, he could generate a powerful sound, but his greatest effectiveness was the rich, sweet sound, which comes

with the extension of the speaking voice not trying to hit the back of an opera house from the stage without a microphone. So the size of the golf people into expecting this awe -inspiring, intimidating, macho person on the contrary, he had a gentle disposition, someone who would always prefer to avoid a fight or a confrontation or an argument than to get into one. So there is this great contradiction. And also in the value system we have, this great value placed on toughness and the macho syndrome, he placed a great deal of value on gentleness and compassion, which is in the sense the opposite of the macho syndrome. He wasn't ashamed to cry when it was appropriate. And I think he gave me that, that sense that to be a man you don't have to be tough and angry and loud. You can be quiet, centered and compassionate and still be very much

a man. And he taught me to look for human values, not just male values, but human values, not just civil rights, but human rights. He had a very broad worldview, and I think that came from being both to many cultures when he was a young man. He lived in Europe for 12 years from 1927 to 1939, based in London primarily, met people from all over the world where in many languages and therefore absorbed a very broad vision, a very broad view of the world. 1 -800 -360 -1799 is our number, let's go to Bill in Baltimore, Good Evening Bill. I'll call it, I really appreciate you all. Bill, how are you? Okay. How are you feeling tonight? Fine, thanks. Great. I have a question regarding what, well, let's put it this way, I'm 47. Quote that I was about 17 or 18

when, you know, the tail end of the 60s and all that. What I'm wondering is, what was it in Paul Robus' life? See, I can't even imagine the 30s. We're going to order 20s or 4s. Just like my son who is 26. I can't really imagine the 60s. Okay. What was it? Doing that time period that made or triggered Paul Robus' senior to step out and to speak at a time when it was, you know, black men would be murdered just for raising their eyes at a Caucasian. You know, what was it in Paul, for your research and I guess from your personal knowledge? You know, what triggered Paul Robus' senior to, you know, find his voice to say something on behalf of black people? There's been a long

tradition of that. Frederick Douglass, that Turner, that Mark Vesey, many, many, many others. Some quieter than others. He came from that tradition. The tradition, which says, there comes a time when it is better to die on your feet than live on your knees. In the book, I explained it metaphorically. He figured that out in making the football team at Rutgers University when he was 17 years old and never looked back. At a certain point, he is not going to take more than a certain level of abuse without them having to kill him. And that changed his life, his outlook. And I would say he wasn't the first, no, the last. It's a long tradition and black wife going back centuries. So it wasn't something that he invented. He told me a very interesting

story once about Frederick Douglass meeting John Brown, just before the Harper's Ferry raid, and John Brown wanted Frederick Douglass to join him. To strike this blow that was going to undermine the whole institution of slavery even if they failed in taking over Harper's Ferry. And Frederick Douglass said, John, I would like to do that, but I have a different task, a different way to go. So I use my voice and my pen to mobilize the country against slavery. You have your job to do, I have mine. And they got up and they embraced and Frederick Douglass turned to his bodyguard, a huge black man, a skate slave named Shields Green. Who couldn't read and write, but was very, very intelligent man. He said, Shields, it's time to go and Shields stood up.

The tears running down his cheeks embraced Frederick Douglass and said simply, no Frederick, I think I goes with the old man. My father was part Frederick Douglass and also Shields Green, and knew figured out when to do which. I think that there were many parts to him. There are many parts that have been in the black male tradition for centuries, but which the popular culture has suppressed, and which many of us, even in these modern times, are forgotten. My father is controversial now, even, because he brings together and brings to the surface all of the parts of the African American tradition. And he was the one in the 20s, 30s and 40s redefined the black male image in American culture and world culture for that matter greatly

for the better, with dignity, with power, with wisdom and intelligence. 1 -800 -360 -1799 is the number to PowerPoint 1 -800 -360 -1799. We thank Bill for his call on his question. Let's go to Donald also in Baltimore. Yeah, how are you doing? I have something in common with the Singapore robots, and I went to Columbia, my son did the PhD, and I also studied law courses. I taught at Rutgers, and I had a fellowship where I travel to Russia, I've been to Moscow. Is that right? Petersburg, Kiev, and Yalta. Many things. I've also been to Budapest, Prague, Belgrade, and Sankey, Zurich, Paris. And I've visited the Moscow Conservatory, and I also had Chiapalan, the base. I have ten of his recordings. In fact, they said that he was the well -known cellist, Victor Kobatsky, professor of Moscow's territory. Rekoreka liked for the Bullseye State rehearsal in 1920, Chiapalan, who used every spare minute to step down the proscenium and listen to the cello group. In other words,

he was a profound base. In fact, I have a comprehensive recordings of Chiapalan, and I got him when I was in Moscow. I got Tsukowsky and Rumsikovsikov. I have 15 of Shostakovich, 70s. Rokofiev, Stravinsky. What's the real question? My question is, is that Paul Roberson was a distinguished individual, and not only was he distinguished, but the question I have to ask is this. If you put him in historical terms, as a musician, as a scholar, as an interluck, and as an athlete, what would you say was the most important dimension of it? Was it as a musician, or was it as a profound thinker? Okay, Paul, I'm going to have to ask you to answer that right after the break. Thanks so much for your question. We'll continue with more of PowerPoint in just a moment. PowerPoint is funded in part by PowerPoint's affiliate station consortium,

KTSU FM in Houston, WRVS FM in Elizabeth City, North Carolina, Atlanta's WRFGFN. W -E -A -A -F -M in Baltimore, W -J -S -U -F -M in Jackson, Mississippi, and K -P -V -U -F -M serving Prairie View, Texas. PowerPoint's affiliate station consortium committed to the continuation of quality public radio programming.

And welcome back to PowerPoint. We are talking about the undiscovered Paul Robson in an artist's journey 1898 to 1939. Our guest, Paul Robson, Jr. And this guest was suggested by Lawrence Shorter of Affiliate W -E -A -A in Baltimore, Maryland. And we want to thank him for that suggestion because this is really, I've only touched the surface of this book, but it is so fascinating to find out things that a lot of us never knew about the great Paul Robson. Our

number is 1 -800 -360 -1799 -1 -800 -360 -1799. And before the break, we were talking with Donald who had a question about your father. Go ahead, Mr. Robson. Where would I think his greatest historical contribution was? Will I ask dad what would he want to be remembered for? If it was only one thing, and interestingly enough, he said for his definitive portrayal of Ocello in 1943, 1944 in the Broadway production, I would add that he's also going to be historically imprinted forever as a singer. Obviously, his legacy as a singer, actor, as preserved on film and on recordings, is a lasting historical contribution. People don't know, for example, that Paul Robson is the only

African -American charter member of the U .S. National Theatre Hall of Fame. One of only 33 out of the initial 106 charter members to be specially honored at the induction in 1972. The other thing which people don't know about is that I would add that historically he will be remembered for some of the most profound writings on African -American culture, its universal side, and its connections with the cultures of the world, and the interrelationship between culture and politics. Most of that writing was in the 1930s, and some of it later on, but taken together some of the most profound things that have been written in that area, and people are almost totally unaware of that side of him. Lastly, one

cannot forget that he was the first two -year football African -American football American, two years in the row in 1917 and 1918, where he dominated the college game of football for two consecutive years for an African -American at that time, that was more than extraordinary. So he's going to be remembered historically in all of the major areas in which he contributed actor, singer, athlete, scholar. No doubt, 1 -800 -360 -1799 is our number. Let's go to Ron in Atlanta. Good evening, Ron. Good evening, how are you, Mr. Robinson? Fine, thanks, I do. I just wanted to share with you that I happen to teach school here in the Atlanta area, and it's always a delight to share the accomplishments of your father with students to give them a sense of the things that they can accomplish, and also of the times in which he lived in the great contributions and accomplishments he made in his life. And I just had a question for you.

What are the best sources for getting some of his recordings that may be available on the market today? There must be at least a dozen CDs, Sony Records, BMG, Smithsonian Institute has two recordings, Omega Records, and the largest single collection probably is held by the English. A company, English music industry is known as EMI. Okay, I didn't even have catalogues, you could get as many as 10 to 12 CDs, including an original Columbia CSL series, Columbia Masterworks as a full recording of the original cast of Othello. It may be on another label, which you can find out through Sony, which owns the Columbia Masterworks. Oh, I see that. Any videos or

film versions available for him for commercial markets? They're considerable number on the market, by the way, one other source for a CD is Welk Music Industries, which has a CD with Ballot for Americans and several live performances. The videos are one of Janus Films here in New York, which did an Oscar -winning short, 30 -minute short called Polroves and Tribute to an Artist. There are a number of other videos, most recently American Masters of WNET, did a two -hour definitive documentary called Polroves and Here I Stand. There are a number of his films that you can go to a major video store, i .e. Song of Freedom, King Solomon's Minds, Jericho, Emperor Jones, Sanders of the River are all, as far as I know, available on video from various sources. Ron, you might want to

try the Internet also. It's always a good source. Good idea. Thanks so much for your phone call, Ron. 1 -800 -360 -1799 is our number, Tiffany in Atlanta. Thanks for holding and good evening. Hi, thank you. My name is Tiffany Farsha, and I conducted research on African Americans who went to the Soviet Union. And I was wondering, what did you write about your father and his association with the Soviet Union, how that affected him afterwards? There are several chapters in the book on that, and of course I was there in the 30s at the same time that he visited, though there is considerable information in the book, not only from the record, but from my own recollections and his and from my conversations. After the fact, but not least, the conversations with him during our time spent together in the Soviet Union. A contrary to mythology, he visited there fairly often, but spent very little

time there. He never lived there. He always lived in England when he was in Europe, and traveled there quite often on visits, but he never stayed more than, well, at most several weeks. So the idea that he was exiled to the Soviet Union after the McCarthy era, or that he lived for any significant length of time in the Soviet Union, etc. etc. is propaganda in order to try and make him look like some kind of Soviet agent or something like that. In fact, that was very independent minded, never joined, would think of joining any political party who was an artist, came and went to be pleased. So even living for long periods of time in the Soviet Union, certainly in Stalin's time, much too rigid as a society for him to settle down and live in. He never contemplated doing that. That doesn't take away from the fact that he saw in the Soviet Union in the 30s and beyond,

most reliable ally of African Americans, of colored peoples of the world, of the colonial freedom movements against Western imperialism and said so and kept saying so throughout most of his career. But those are much different things than joining up with the Communist Party. No, he never contemplated that. Can I ask one other question? Quickly, Tiffany, thank you. Was it true that he encouraged Khrushchev to start the Institute for African Study in Moscow? Well, let's say indirectly, Khrushchev was very much oriented towards minorities in his own country and throughout the world. So he didn't need any prodding from anybody to do that. That came there to that Institute and sang there and spoke there during Khrushchev's time. And he was personally acquainted with and friendly with Khrushchev. But Khrushchev was third world -oriented from the beginning, from his own experience with the minority peoples in the south of Russia where he grew up. Yes. Thank you,

Tiffany. Thank you so much for your phone call. 1 -800 -360 -1799 is our number. Maggie and Baltimore, good evening. Peace and blessings to both of you. First of all, when I say to you, Robes and Juniors, that it was a pleasure for me to run across your father and my research as a student at the Journal of Darkness here in Baltimore. And the things that I was most impressed with was his empathy for his ancestors. Because he mentioned he felt the horror of the slave market and the degradation of man brought in soul into slavery. This was an interview that he gave in 1925 and London. And did you ever talk with your father? Did he ever talk to you about the empathy and the compassion he had for his ancestors? That's where I got mine. Okay. Well, it runs in our family.

I mean, after all, I'm a grandson of a slave. That's great. You know, I was really surprised when I became an adult. Because you know, usually when we have black history, we just get these little glances of who our contributors were. And I was very surprised when I became an adult to find out he was a lawyer, an activist, a whole person with such a high level of his own self -worth. Indeed. The other thing that I also write in the book about, you know, after a discussion like this, people may come away with the idea. This is a real, heavy guy. I mean, he really is dignified and all of which is true. But it's also true that he was a really fun guy to be around. I mean, he had a wonderful sense of humor. He could be rolling on the floor funny. He was a complete person. So I wrote the book in part to show that side of it

that he wasn't always serious. He had all these different sides to him. And growing up, I must say one of the greatest compliments I can pay to him if he hadn't been my father and done all those things. Just to have shared part of life's journey with him is something that would have lasted me and asked me for a lifetime. Anyone who was ever close to him and many who just were brushed by him and along life's journey treasure those moments for a whole life. He's like a spiritual force that stays with you, not just somebody you remember as a guy who did a lot of things. It's a spiritual force that is part of the legacy that lives in people who we touched and that's an important thing. I tried to convey that in the book. Maggie, thanks so much for your phone call. 1 -800 -360 -1799 -1800

-360 -1799. I hope I don't butcher this name a day senior. Is that right? From Houston? Yes. Okay, go ahead. That's me. Good evening. It's a pleasure to talk to you. Actually, I don't know much about your father. But about one year ago, I had about him on radio particle radio. Yeah, exactly. So I had about him. So I was taken in by him. So I don't know much about it. But my question is this, during those times, did he ever think of going back to Africa? Did he ever talk to you about it? Many times. In my fact, as I demonstrated, he talked about going

to Africa when he was living in England and met all the African leaders, leaders to be of African independent countries. They were then leaders of independent struggles. He met most of them in England. Namdae Zikui of Nigeria and Krumah of Ghana. Many other, a narrow of India, he met. And many other African leaders. And my point is he never... Interestingly enough, he was not able to visit Africa during his 12 years living in London. Because the British government would not allow him to do so. He was one of the spearheads of the worldwide anti -colonial movement. He was going to visit specifically Ghana and Guinea and Nigeria

after his imprisonment, more or less within the boundaries of the US when he had no passport after 1958. But in the early 1960s, he became ill and was not able to travel, came home and retired. So ironically, he visited Africa only once, and that was during the filming of a movie called Jericho, where he visited the Sudan and Egypt. But ironically, it's much work as he did for the independence of Africa. He never was able to visit the motherland. You know what? I have actually chosen him as one of my heroes. I don't know much about him, but I would like to get a information about him if we have any books. Well, that's exactly what we're talking about. Paul Robson Jr. has written this beautiful book, the undiscovered Paul Robson and artist journey 1898 to

1939. And it is volume one, so I suggest you go out and pick it up. How about that? 1 -800 -360 -1799 is our number, and I want to thank a day for his phone call. Let's go to John and Philly. Good evening, John. I don't want you to just interject one more time. Oh, okay, go ahead. There is a, my father's autobiography is called Here I Stand, published by Beacon Press. You know, that's available in the store. So that's my father's own work. Okay. John, in Philadelphia, good evening. Good evening. Hi, thank you, Mr. Ewing. Good evening, John. Well, first of all, I want to say that among his other achievements, I believe that your father was one of the greatest interpreters of song in the 20th century. So, I just wanted to say that, but I wanted to ask about a particular rendition that he performed, I guess, on several occasions, the acidic chance of the A .V. Isaac of Virtuchev. Great. Could you shed some, specifically shed some light on that song and how he came

to do it? And then, perhaps more generally, his sense of affinity, not just with Jews, but with Yiddish culture in particular. I'd be very interested. That's an interesting question. As far back as the middle 1920s, and I, again, mentioned this in the book, at some length, including quotes from Jewish cultural figures and religious figures, at the time of the extraordinary renditions that my father did not only of the acidic chant, but of other Yiddish and Hebrew songs, traditional, and he spoke of the affinity of between African -American and Jewish culture in the U .S. and the fact that both the Hebrews and Africans

called Africa home, and that in the music, and he studied and learned both Hebrew and Yiddish, in the traditional music of the Jewish people, are many of the melodic intervals of African and especially African -American music, and the chant of the rhythm and tones of the Jewish cantor are similar in many ways to the traditional melodic intervals of the African -American preacher out of the southern black tradition. So he was one of the cultural figures, as early as the 1920s, who pointed out those connections, and not only those connections, but the connections between the cultures of the world. John, thank you so much for your phone call and your question,

and we will continue with more of PowerPoint in just a moment. So remember living in easy, these are jumping, and passing it high. Oh, your daddy is rich, and your mind is good looking. So, but do you believe it? And welcome back to PowerPoint, I'm

Carmen Burns. We are speaking with Paul Robeson Jr. about his book, about his father, the undiscovered Paul Robeson, an artist's journey, 1898 to 1939. This is volume one, it takes us up to 1939, is that right? And then we will go beyond, for the second volume, how far along are you on that? Well, I'm well into the second volume. I've been working on it quite a while, it covers a period in which, you know, I was older than covers, so a lot of my adult years were quite close to my father, so it also has a different theme. The first volume is called an artist's journey, the second volume is called a prophet's quest. Hmm, why? Because when he came back, by the time he came back to the US in 1939, he was fully developed in every way as a great artist, as a political figure,

he was as radical as he was ever going to get, and he came back with the view beginning, the period was the beginning of World War II to spend the rest of his life with one single major priority, and that was to advance the course of African -American freedom. He put it on looking for freedom, full freedom, not an inferior brand, and he meant not just for himself, but for the entire African -American people. So that's why I call it a prophet's quest, because he felt that was his divine mission. Becoming a world figure, his immense stature as an artist, as a cultural figure, as a political symbol, was all a preparation for this mission he'd been put here for. 1 -800 -360 -1799 is our number. Let's go to Larry in Atlanta. Good evening, Larry. Larry is having a comment.

I know you're good. Look at it. I don't give a damn with the fish or just... All righty, thank you very much. Let's go to Gerald in Delaware. Gerald, good evening. Okay, I think Gerald is gone. Let's go to Najee in Delaware. Najee? I'm Najee Aljadair. Okay, go ahead. Hi, I'm fine, thank you. I was in Russia from November 59 to April 63. I wonder whether your father was there at that period. He was most important. I want to ask questions whether he felt. I am not a black. I am from Middle East. I am from Iraq sent to Amga, Moscow University. Is Najee still with us? What my question is, whether he felt there is racism in Russia toward

the block, how did he express his views about that? Number one, he was there in 1959, 1960, and 1961 for brief visits. Number two, in the 30s, when he visited, and I was there during the 30s for two years, or almost two years, there was zero racism in the sense that we know it in the United States. See difference. I was there in 1959, and it was the radical of Khrushchev time. There was racism of various kinds there, not just towards blacks, but towards Asians, towards some of the people within the Soviet Union. Being completely bilingual in Russian, there was also anti -Semitism, by the way.

I would describe it this way. Compared to the US, not nearly. I mean, it was like a breath of fresh air. However, the legacy of racism in Khrushchev's time was the legacy of Stalinism in the late 30s of the perjures and during World War II. Stalin was, although a Georgian, I would call a Russian nationalist with all that means. And the legacy of that nationalism was manifested in Khrushchev and recycled again in perhaps even worse ways through Yeltsin, who I call a Russian. Yes, of course, yes. The progressive tradition that my father always identified with Khrushchev is the tradition of Bukharin, Kira,

Khrushchev, Gorbachev. And the friends they had in the 1930s like Sergey Eisenstein, Maxim Latvinov, those are all the people who were like the internationalists, I call them, like Khrushchev and Gorbachev. So the divisions between progressive and reactionary in Russia, whether communist, socialist, or zaris, have always been reflected as nationalist versus internationalists. Racist versus non -racist. Khrushchev came up to Harlem first thing he did when he got to New York went to India, went to Calcutta, and so on. So those overtones existed in the Soviet Union in Russia, and within the communist party, for that matter. I mean, the communist party, the Soviet Union, have everybody from left to right, and on racial and every other issue. So quite apart from, so

long answer to a very Khrushchev. Yes, there was relative that was very nuanced about that. He would sing songs of colonial liberation, Yiddish songs, Hebrew songs, and whatnot. In the Soviet Union, to make it clear how he felt about it, but he never criticized them explicitly because of the vast difference between the problem there and the problem we face here in the US. All right, Nudgey, I've got to let you go with that, because we're running out of time. Thank you so much for your phone call. Before we let you go, I'd just like to know, if there were any very memorable words that your father spoke to you, this stick with you to this day. To paraphrase, be your own person, strive for perfection. Never go along to get along. Act on

principle, make whatever sacrifice you have to do, you have to make to do what's right. And another thing, which is probably as important as anything, lift while you climb. Success in itself. Accumulations of money, wealth, and power is by itself worthless unless you advance the cause of your people, and even on a broader scale, the cause of humanity. Very. I think all those things, that I'd sort from him, by example, more than, is pretty much. Very profound words from a very profound man. Thank you so much, Paul Robson, Jr. for being with us, and we hope to speak with you again when volume 2 comes out. Well, thanks for having me. I've enjoyed it. Coming up next on PowerPoint, a look at the life and music of Miles Davis. Call our hotline at 1 -800 -360 -1799 -1 -800 -360 -1799. You're listening to PowerPoint.

The Health Care Reporting on PowerPoint is funded by the National Speaking of Women's Health Foundation, educating women to make personal decisions about personal health care and well -being, on the web at speakingofwomen'shealth .com. PowerPoint is funded in part by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and the National Legacy Foundation. This is PowerPoint, a production of WCLK FM, a broadcast service of Clark Atlanta University. The Health Care Reporting on PowerPoint

Good evening and welcome to PowerPoint, broadcasting live from Atlanta, Georgia. I'm Carmen Burns. He was one of the most enigmatic figures in the history of jazz, and yet his genius compelled him to seek new paths to take his music. Within the span of 60 years, Miles Dewey Davis painted a landscape of music that spanned his lifetime and beyond. May 25th marks his 75th birthday, and is led to the Miles Davis radio project. His life and musical contributions continue to influence many of today's musicians, in and out of the jazz genre, talented and tormented forever blue, the life and music of Miles Davis. This is PowerPoint, and we're back in a moment. Music Production and broadcast of PowerPoint is made possible by a grant from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, and by the National Legacy Foundation, a nonprofit organization committed

to enhancing, preserving and restoring the legacy and history of life in America. Music This is PowerPoint, an information -age clearing house for news, issues, and ideas that impact the African -American community, the nation, and the world. Miles has always been his own boss in terms of doing exactly what he feels. And not what he thinks is popular, not what he thinks everyone wants to hear, but what Miles wants to do. I mean, he lived well. You stand at the best hotels, driving the fanciest cars. I said, shoot, I want to go the way the Miles is going. You know, and still doing it his way. I mean, you know, Miles is a gorgeous black man today when it's okay to be a gorgeous black man. But Miles was a gorgeous

black man when people said black was ugly. And when black people were not interested in black being beautiful, he was still gorgeous. The controversy surrounding Miles Davis is not limited to music. Many feel that he is arrogant, aloof, a racist, sexist, and radical in his political views. For many years the devil dressed in elegant clothes, a brooding, inigmatic figure, lonely, above it all. And welcome back to PowerPoint. I'm Carmen Burns. You just heard part of the re -released Miles Davis radio project. Miles, trumpeter, composer, and leader came from a wealthy middle class family. He became a dominating figure in jazz, often misunderstood. A purveyor of improvisation, he has influenced generations of jazz musicians worldwide. On this edition of PowerPoint, we'll take a closer look at the man who put together two of the greatest bands and recorded some of the most prolific music in jazz history.

Joining PowerPoint to discuss this legendary musician, Peabody Award winner and producer of the Miles Davis radio project, Mr. Steve Rowland. Also by phone, professor of music at Rutgers University and consultant for the Miles Davis radio project, Dr. Lewis Porter. And in our PowerPoint studio from affiliate WCLK91 .9 FM in Atlanta, Georgia, Deb Moore, producer and program host of Midday Renaissance, and also from affiliate WCLK. Associate professor of sociology at Morehouse College, as well as musician and program host, Dr. Clark White. As always, we encourage you to phone in with your questions or comments. Our PowerPoint hotline number is 1 -800 -360 -1799 -1 -800 -360 -1799. Good evening, all of you. Thanks for being with us on PowerPoint. Thank you for having me. Now, coming from a well -to -do family, did that allow Miles to do what he wanted to do or did it pretty much? Was it that people just did not understand him or just didn't care to accept his genius? Let's start with you, Steve Rowland.

Well, I think that Miles' family was not only well -to -do, they were very educated people and very thoughtful people and very powerful people. And I think that his father and his uncles gave him a tremendous role models. So he knew he could go out and be his own person. Lewis? I would agree with that. And it's funny because in a way, the family obviously gave him support. I mean, he was able to go to New York and take some classes at Juilliard and so forth and so on. On the other hand, they also kind of brought him in line when they felt he was getting out of line. There's a famous story about his father came to get him and said, I understand you're on drugs. You come with me, young man. So I think they, in that way, that was support too. But I think they were supportive both ways. To do what he needed to do but also let him know when he needed to do something else. Deb? First of all, I'd like to say thank you very much for

this opportunity to be here and share my thoughts and comments and reference to Miles, Dewey Davis. And I do also agree with Dr. Porter as well as Steve Rollin. When you have that type of family support, it gives you confidence. And in the 1940s, when Miles actually came more on to the scene and went to New York, that was before the Civil Rights Movement, that later happened in the 60s. I would tend to think with all that was going on in the country, at the turn of the century, well into the 1940s and whatnot, a black American, a black man like that, needs that type of internal confidence. And when you have it, it literally lets you feel like you can do anything in the world that you want to. Clark? Well, a lot of people talk about Miles as being a product of the black middle class, but the debate sometimes is, from Miles's primary agents of socialization who were his mothers and his parents, did the end

result in the Miles committing class suicide or experience in class privilege, growing up behind segregated walls in the south of the very sophisticated family at Steve Point out, and especially a father, Miles had privileges. So when people say that Miles Davis is arrogant and self -centered, no, Miles Davis to me was very self -assured. He was a product of the black bourgeoisie, and he's very proud of that. But he extended it, and he used it as a base, to get exposed and get his refinement as a musician, as a person, as one who understood the principles of aesthetics. So I definitely think that Miles Davis's class background had a tremendous impact on Miles Davis, the person who later became Miles Davis, the artist. 1 -800 -36017 -99 is our number. 1 -800 -360 -1799. What do you think the people just, a lot of times, just did not really understand him or was it, or did he present himself as somebody in enigma? No, I think that enigma would stand over the heads

of African -American men of that class back around at that time. For example, in jazz, you have Dexter Gordon. Walter Booker came out of Morehouse. His father was a doctor. Dexter Gordon's father was a doctor. You have people like the Adilies. So I think that was a time when America, in general, did not see the black middle class, and certainly said that's still true. So those persons were invisible. So when a product comes from that kind of background, they are labeled in enigma because they seem to be so different, but yet so real and so, so very human. I agree with that. I think that Miles was often misunderstood because people are instead of, he would kind of be goofing on the press, he wasn't telling them the truth, all this. Then I would look at the things he said, for example, the whole thing about turning his back on the audience, and he said, well, I'm not that I'm turning my back on the audience, I'm turning myself toward the band. I like to hear what they're playing. I'm directing

them on the leader. That made sense to me. It didn't sound so terrible. Another thing he liked to talk about was differences between black and white musicians. I'm a white musician myself, but I'm very aware that there are differences in playing styles, but it's something that most people don't want to talk about. So I felt that it wasn't so much that he was enigmatic or goofing on the press, but it was more that he was, which I might say brutally frank, he would say things right out that people weren't used to hearing. Used to hearing things sort of couched, if you will. Yeah, they weren't used to hearing that honesty. 1 -800 -36017 -99 is our number. David and Atlanta, good evening. I'm called one time about Paul Robertsville, and the article they did in the F -quire, and he did in the F -quire. All right, David was listening to the last. Aaron has moved up to the next one. Thank you so much. 1 -800 -36017 -99 is our number. Can historians separate, do you think, the man from the music? Oh, I don't

think it's necessary. You don't? No, because I think that they're so intertwined. They're intertwined. And the whole ontology of that era of music and Miles becomes an important person and whole pantheon of characters at that time. So you couldn't separate, because Miles is, to me, is more than a musician. When I think about Miles Davis and say, I was one of the icons with me growing up, because I had cousins and brothers and a father in the deep black belt south, who dug Miles. But they also were in the sports. Miles was a boxer. Miles could dress. He had style. So we dressed like Miles. All the eras. The 50s to 60s to 70s. Miles was wearing shockskins. I remember the 11 -year -old kid. I got my first shockskins suit. Because my uncles and my dad went to that kind of style. You know, Miles liked fancy cars. Which was also, if you had money, you know, they were cars and ran. I remember the cars and even in my neighborhood. You know, and they were, you know, guys would style themselves. So when we talk about Miles Davis, we talk about a type, a persona of an African -American male, who's a product of a post -World War II South, with a father or mother who could give them privilege and expose them to a very broad

world beyond the world of the segregated living. But once again, that class was invisible to white America. Steve? In terms of separating the man from the music? Yes. Well, I think that... No, I think I agree with Clark. I think that you don't need to separate them. I think that you need to look at them holistically and look at the various parts that give you the complete package. You know, for instance, you know, Miles had this very tough exterior. And I think that one of the most important things that we can all learn, and that we all, you know, people did learn then, was that a very powerful black man could step onto the scene and prevent a very tender voice and be manly in doing it. And I think that's, you know, for instance, that's one of the examples where the whole thing comes together. Do you think that his demons were the... or if you will, were the catalyst that made him the

musician that he was? I don't tend to go for that. I tend to think that demons are demons. They make life hard for you. I think so. I don't tend to go for that, but the question is well put, because as you know, when people found out that Charlie Parker was a heron addict, they said, oh, I've got to try that. That's going to make me play like Charlie Parker. But Bird did say himself in a published interview. He said, I'm so upset that people are doing that because he said, being high does not... it's not the reason I play the way I do. But it's certainly in Miles' generation, you're more or less had to try heroin. And it's amazing to... I mean, I know musicians who are around today who, which strike you, is very collegiate, clean -cut people. When you asked them about that era, they said, well, yeah, I did do heroin for a little bit. Maybe not. They didn't get hooked as badly, but it was a tremendous amount of peer pressure, I think, at that time. Yep. Yeah, I agree. 1 -800 -360 -1799. Chris and Atlanta, good evening. Hi, Carmen.

It's Chris and Dennis. I'll listen. I've had two black friends of mine and we're having a party tonight. And so far, they have called the show twice now. And they've been cut off. I get the feeling they were cut off because they sound too terribly black for the conversation. So they asked me to call. And so now I'm calling to pose the question. With your previous hour, sit down. I'll do it. With your previous hour, you talked about Paul Robison. Now you're talking about Miles Davis. Now, you realize in the S -Core, S -Quire article, it's about Paul Robison. Paul was a bit of a fist -to -cuff and kind of guy. And he had a round -house punch. Miles Davis was a short guy. And he hit you with a really short jab. If Miles Davis and Paul Robison were to get into a fight, who would win? Interesting question. For a social deconstructionist, but we're not discussing phenomenology. I didn't know that Miles Davis was a boxer. They were periods when Miles would go to the gym and

train. Because you must remember Miles also. His heroes were various assortment of people in that community, an athlete, especially a boxer. Remember this deer of Sugar Ray? And Miles did it for his physical fitness. And he also mentioned that he did it for his timing as a musician myself. You know, there's a certain amount of technique and timing involved in throwing a punch and in delivering a note. And he would have claimed it would help his timing. And I wanted sometimes about that because knowing that world of macho -ness like I do, there were some tough guys of those gyms in Gleason's gym and they weren't giving Miles any favors. So I think that was one of the ways he conditioned himself, too, through those periods of struggling with his demons and his addiction. Looking at old newspaper articles from my research, I found one reference in 1960 is kind of interesting. It said recently, Miles Davis is when he practices boxing, which is kind of a hobby for him. He said he's been sparring with drummer Chico Hamilton. Chico Hamilton still around. So I asked him what's the story of this. He said, yeah, he said we work out together sometimes.

But speaking of the pull of robes and aspect of it, Miles was much more active in civil rights than I think a lot of people realized in this specifically the sense that he contributed to the way a musician can. He did a lot of benefit concerts for core, for NAACP, for a number of activist organizations, especially in the early 60s. I think you are bringing out some things. That call just brought out some things that I don't think people really are aware of. 1 -800 -360 -1799. Chris, thanks so much for your phone call. Now, let's listen to a little bit from the Miles Davis radio project. From Miles himself. He relates a humorous story about giving Coltrane a saxophone. Well, you went to Paris, a girl from the mindset, Miles, this company wants to give you a horn. You know, I don't need a horn, I got a horn. We'll just go and say something to her.

So I went and I saw a soprano saxophone, and I said, give me a soprano saxophone, so I gave it a train. I gave it a train, I said, here. He never put that horn down. He plays in the bus and the airport. He played a play saxophone, a soprano saxophone, and also he bananas. You know what I'm saying? I said, why are you eating bananas? He said, hey, see them and they're strong enough. Now, I wonder if people realize, I mean, he always seemed to be so serious in so many other appearances. Do you think people realized that he was pretty humorous? Well, Robin Kelly wrote an interesting article in the New York Times about two weeks ago, and he compared Miles to what he called the pimple static or the play as a static. And a part of that whole rhythm of speech and the player's community

is to, in fact, space your words and speak rhythmically, like music. So that was once again a part of his style. It was a kind of a quit, a humor, and a lot of irony. There was always an ironic turn in Miles Davis, when he expressed himself verbally, but the ironic turn in his music was always, that counterpoint was always there. Style once again. Steve? Yeah, well, all of those things are true. Miles was always, I mean, a little bit that I spent time with Miles, who was always funny. And there was always a lot of humor, a lot of insight into things. He had a real different way of being. When you were with him, you knew that you were with a really different kind of intellect, because he was incredibly smart and incredibly fast -thinking, and he also fought in a kind of a non -linear way. So he would start off a story when we were editing the interviews to go into the radio series. They were not easy to edit, because he would start off a

story, and then he would meander into something else, and maybe six layers later, he'd get back to the original and wrap it all up, although sometimes he wouldn't. But they were always quite funny, and he definitely had a good sense of humor. Lewis? I think he also got looser, and he got older, because in the 50s and 60s, his interviews, the most reprinted, which we've seen a little more serious, but in the 80s, I think he really loosened up. I mean, he was on the Dick Cabot show, and I have a video of that I taped it, and his laughing is joking around with Dick Cabot, the trading sunglasses, let me try yours on. So I think he loosened up in a kind of refreshing way towards the end, then. What was so innovative about Miles' playing, that you think influenced so many generations of musicians? Well, there's a lot to say about that, but I think probably what stands out is the spacing, and pacing, and thinking in terms of putting tremendous

passion in each note, whereas he came from a generation of brilliant players like Dizzy Gillespie, Fats the Rare, who were a lot more into flash. I'm not saying that they're not as great, but they went to flash, and you were supposed to show, you know, how fast, and how high it could play. Now, Miles, it's a famous thing, and he said, well, I couldn't do that, so I had to find something else, but he's being in a way too modest, because what he did come up with is incredibly brilliant, and incredibly passionate. Clark? Well, now I hear Miles, and I choose a little bit, because I read the book, and I know Steve, but Miles also was grounded in the blues, so his spacing and his style, but I think, when I think of Miles, I think of Clark Terry, in terms of his musical technique, and he gives Clark Terry a lot of credit, but I also think of blues, because Miles even says himself, he remembers the cries of the boat men, down on the river, coming through near St. Louis, and those very long notes, and the spacing he used, I went back and listened again, because I'm a blues musician, and one of his major influences, I think, was the whole blues

cosmology. Deb? Well, I was reading earlier, something about Miles, that Henry David the Roehead said, and it was, if a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer, of which I think Miles David certainly did, let him step to the music, which he hears, however, measured or far away. And I think that, and this is just my thought, I'm not a musician, but I think that for musicians, who are not necessarily wanting to sound like anyone else, but wanting to find their own voice, knowing that Miles Davis was bold enough, was competent enough, was intellectual enough, to step out, despite what anyone had to say about, his latter years, about his latter years, and whatnot, I think that, um... Okay, I think we just lost Deb, but I think we just lost your microphone. Hang on just a second. Um, let me go ahead and go back to Lewis on that one.

Now, let me just think, uh, what she was talking about, oh, they're different drummers, very good, because that's certainly the thing about Miles, is that he had a very distinct way of playing, and a very distinct vision, and then what happened is he started to influence other people. So, for example, Clifford Brown, who's a very famous trumpet player, and a lot of times people think of him as coming out of, Fats Navarro, uh, and the Dizzy Glass Beach edition, what they don't notice, is Clifford Brown was also listening very closely to Miles Davis. So, Miles had an impact, even on the more brassy kind of trumpet players. Can I make an addition to this? Go ahead, please. Uh, I agree with everything that Deb said, and Clark said, and Lewis said, uh, Lewis and Clark were talking, uh, I think primarily about Miles's style as a trumpet player. Uh, also when we talk about his innovation, we have to talk about his innovation as a band leader. Uh, and one of the things that I think is really important, I think one of the things that I learned a lot while I was working on the documentary, is that Miles was,

was really interested in what was current in music, and it happens that Miles Davis was born at a time when what was the hippest music and the most brilliant music, probably on the planet, was bebop. So when he moved to New York, he, I mean, and Miles Davis replaced Digital S .B. in Charlie Parker's Man when he was 18 years old, which is astonishing. That was the hippest and the most brilliant music that was being played anywhere. What Miles continued to do as an innovator, was to figure out, and to be part of what was innovative and on cutting edge for the next 30 or 40 years. And I think, you know, all of us who like music and like different kinds of music, like the music that speaks to the particular time, the particular moment, the particular things that are taking place in the world. Uh -huh. And Miles got interested in everything. You know, he was listening to all kinds of folk music and international music when he did sketches of Spain and Porgy and Beth, and then

he went on to create electric music in the 70s, and then he was interested in flying the family stone and James Brown, who he recognized as the geniuses that they are. And I think that's very important, and it was very important, part of Miles Davis's mind and his musical world, and therefore his innovation. It sounds like he was constantly changing with the times, and he wasn't stagnant. And sometimes musicians just get in one genre, one mode, and they aren't willing to absorb anything else, or influence anything else, or be influenced by anything else. Exactly. But it's interesting, because you can be in the top of your field and just stay in the one thing that you accomplished. Louis Armstrong, for example, I mean, he's one of the great jazz musicians of all time, but when Beeper came in, he said that is definitely not for me. In fact, he was on, quoted in the newspapers and in the magazines. I don't know what this is, but it's not for me. And on the other hand,

Duke Ellington was always keeping up with the latest thing and having ideas, and Miles was definitely that type. I think Steve's point is extremely important, and when we think of the importance of Miles Davis, we always think of him as a trumpeter, and as a band leader, as someone who always came up with new ideas, who even though, let's say he wasn't the first one to do the cool style, the way he did it, knocked everybody out. He really wasn't the first one to do fusion, but the way he did it, everyone said, wow, now that's a really hip way to do it. And it got to the point, I remember growing up in the 60s, the young musician, it got to the point where you'd, you'd wait with Bated Best for the next Miles Davis album, because it would give you ideas of which way to go. 1 -800 -360 -1799 is our number, James in Pennsylvania, good evening. James, are you with me? Yeah. Go ahead. Jimmy Hendrix. He

rules. Jimmy Hendrix rules. Yeah. Okay, yeah. Well, Jimmy Hendrix in his own right certainly does. 1 -800 - And Miles Davis thought that Jimmy Hendrix ruled. Miles was completely fascinated by Hendrix, and thought that Hendrix was a phenomenal musician. He understood. And he was? Immediately. Yeah. And Miles was one of the leaders in jazz who said listen to Hendrix because he's a great musician. Exactly. I don't know if the caller was aware of that there is a connection yet. In fact, Miles' great friend, Gil Evans, had actually written arrangements. He was already written and ready to be recorded, that he was hoping that Jimmy Hendrix to come in and play the guitar with, and then of course Hendrix passed away and ended up doing that album with different guitars. Could you imagine a collaboration between Hendrix and Miles Davis? Exactly. And Prince, because Miles dug Prince at the end. Wouldn't that be a hell of a conflict? Wouldn't it go? Miles did play with Prince. He did? Yeah, that did happen. Oh. Miles and Prince were actually quite close. And Miles,

you know, and I think this is interesting because you know one of the things to think about is not owned is that if you think about musicians like Hendrix and Prince, and this is important, and it's a little difficult, I think, for the people who are, who consider themselves jazz purists, is that the genius that exists in somebody like Prince, or Jimmy Hendrix, or Sly, is that they have this extraordinary musical genius and they're playing music that works at that moment. And that's why Miles liked them. And in a certain way, Prince and Jimmy Hendrix were like the Miles Davis' of their generation, because they were able to take all of the musical talent and the social focus and understand just what was happening and speak the language in that way. And Miles recognized that. I don't think he had, I mean, just to him, it was just obvious and normal. Deb? Well, I'm a big, big fan of Prince. I enjoy Jimmy Hendrix,

and I dig Miles all of them separately. Separately. I think it would have been a very interesting collaboration, had Miles Davis actually documented something that he created with Prince. But I just, you know, from Bitches Brew and some of the other rock fusion type things that Miles Davis later laid down, my ears could not hear it. Hmm. Well, everybody's a little bit different in their regard. And everyone hears different things in the music. 1 -800 -360 -1799 is our number. Let's go to Tyrone. And I'm not a jazz peristee. I understand. Let's just say that on the record. Let's go to Tyrone in South Carolina. Hi, Tyrone. Tyrone, are you with me? Okay, let's go to Steve in New Jersey. Steve. I want to, I'm a student of Louis Porter. I want to wish Louis Happy

Birthday today. And I want to ask the panel, I hope you just don't think this is unfair question, but I'd like to hear from each of you. What is your own favorite period of that very rich, so many rich periods of this career? What's favorite, is your favorite period and all band? And more particularly, is there one album that you would recommend, or even one record for someone who is unfamiliar with Miles as representative of his playing, or as your own personal favorite? Okay, Steve. We're going to answer that in just a moment. 1 -800 -360 -1799 is our number, and you're listening to PowerPoint. 1 -800 -360 -1799 is our number.

Today, critics and fellow musicians trace Miles style to the ferment of the period. At a

musical crossroads, Miles was influenced on the one hand by the sophisticated music of New York City, and on the other was pulled to the sound of spirituals and the blues of the Midwest and rural South. I would say it was our primary music, the primary music in the country. It was the base of the blues. In other words, from just one note, I always thought one note started right there on the river. You know, guys started singing and this hit the one note. You know, and we're talking about Miles, you know, his mouth uses one note very well. You know, he can hit the note. He's famous for playing phrases like that. With the blues, the vocal blues is like that. The guitar blues is like that. And you can hit it all up down in the Mississippi River. You were just listening to Danny

Glover and OluDara talk about the influence of blues and spirituals and the river singers of the Mississippi on Miles' music. You're listening to PowerPoint, I'm Carmen Burns, and we are discussing Paul. I'm sorry, that was Paul Robes. And in the last time, I'm still getting confused. Miles Davis is what we're talking about right now. We're joined by Peabody Award winner and producer of the Miles Davis radio project, Mr. Steve Rollin. Also joining us by phone, professor of music at Rutgers University and consultant for the Miles Davis radio project, Dr. Lewis Porter. And in our PowerPoint studio from Affiliate WCLK FM in Atlanta. Deb Moore, producer and program host of Midday Renaissance, and also from WCLK, associate professor of sociology at Morehouse College, as well as musician and program host, Dr. Clark White. And you are always encouraged to phone in with your questions or comments. Our number is 1 -800 -360 -1799 -1 -800 -360 -1799. Before the break, we were talking with Steve from New Jersey who asked from each of our guests

to give their favorite period in Miles' Davis chronology. And their favorite record or maybe something that personifies him. Deb, we'll start with you. Well, for me, I think it is Miles Davis when he is performing alongside Philly Joe Jones. I believe along with John Coltrane and or Hank Moverly and Red Garland. And the Cole Porter classic, Love for Sale. And every time I play it when I'm on the air during my air shift here, the phones light up. And I get very excited because for me listening to that composition done by those gentlemen is an absolute thrill. It shows them square smack dab in that jazz pocket. Trading off ideas, listening to one another, being respectful of one another. And I just love it, you know. So I would recommend the composition Love for Sale as a tune to listen to. And I think for me the album, Kind of Blue, the one that everyone

is talking about and celebrating. For obvious reasons, you know, it's beautiful, it's thoughtful, it's intellectual, it's very cool. And that sweet, sweet muted trumpet that Miles lays out will never, ever go out of style. It's just a classic album. And if you really, in my thought, want to hear the sound of good jazz music, you know, without all that, yeah, yeah. That's it, that personifies it. Oh, no question, that album and that Cole Porter tune Love for Sale with those very fine gentlemen. Lewis? I always like to answer these kind of questions two ways because as I'm a jazz historian, if I tell you my favorite record, I don't want you to think that it has to be your favorite record, you know what I mean? So first of all, from the historical point of view, I'll tell you that, now I'll tell you my favorite. But obviously, absolutely kind of blue. You've got to hear it. Yes. From the historical point of view, the so -called birth of the cool sessions which are on Capitol Records

from the late 40s. From the historical point of view, any, there's several albums that could count from the group with Wayne Shorter and Herbie Hancock, maybe you could say the album ESP. And by the way, that in my funny valentine, you were playing with the four, which is when George Coleman was the saxophone at the band, just before Wayne Shorter. That's a great one. But in terms of the fusion, it is very controversial as your guest mentioned. And there are many people who think that as soon as he got into that fusion, you might as well stop listening to my own Davis. But to me, especially in the early 70s, not only that fusion stuff is way out there. It's very, I don't even know if you could call it commercial, including Bitches Brew, but it has some very strange songs on a very spooky thing. Strange, live evil has some very haunting and strange things. Panagia in a garden have very strange things. But now I'm going to tell you on the gut level, if you just said to me, which album do you, okay, forget about history for a second. Which album do you take out when you just want to hear

Miles Davis play the trumpet? Now I'm not talking about the band or whatever. I love the way he plays on the session with Talonius Monk from December 1954. To me, that year he has a special thing happening on his horn. I don't know if it's because that's the year he got off of heroin. Maybe he was feeling really good getting his health together. But whatever it is, he has a big fat sound, tremendous rich emotional lyrical playing. I just can't get enough of that. And also from the same year, working that whole session where he recorded the tune, working is, I think he plays absolutely brilliantly both of those things from 1954. Okay, Clark? Well, I'll have to recommend what was given to me as a young man and I assigned to my students at Morehouse, the quintessential album for Miles Davis, was kind of blue. If you travel and have the privilege of ever going around a major Iranian like I did and see the sun come up, you listen to sketches of spank. When you're ready in the New York to hang out with your people, bitch is bru. You know, that's the one.

And when you want to rumble and when I'm real angry, I had a hard day. I'm going out to argue with somebody. You know what's going on? Jack Johnson, that Miles Davis piece. But I think kind of blue is the quintessential album that any person should have in their collection. And Steve? Well, let's see. Before I answer that question, one of the things I wanted to just quickly get in is to acknowledge the other people who worked on the Miles Davis radio project with us. And the co -producers were Quincy Troop and Jay Allison. And although some people think that Quincy Troop wrote the script for the series, actually he didn't. They were written by a gentleman named Larry Abrams, who is a brilliant documentary writer and a novelist. And I also wanted to mention also reiterate Happy Birthday to Lewis. Thank you. You're having a birthday. In terms of answering the question, I sort of also have the same answer. You know, I have some favorite Miles Davis records, but it's important to look at, I think, to look at all of his periods. I happen to be a John Coltrane fanatic. So I like all of the records that Miles and Coltrane did. And I

think that it's important for us to understand Miles' contribution in kind of allowing John Coltrane to become John Coltrane that we know. And what I mean by that is that Coltrane was an extremely advanced player by the time that Miles hired him, but he had kind of a funny sound and it was difficult to hear. And he was working through these very complicated ideas of music theory. And he didn't have the room to work these ideas out. And Miles allowed John Coltrane to play 45 minutes solos during their live sets. And if you think about that, if you have somebody who's an advanced player as Coltrane was at that time, and you're the band leader, you have to be very, very secure to allow Coltrane to play for 45 minutes. True. And I feel like the show was going to be stolen from you. Exactly.

And Miles actually liked to listen to Coltrane play these 45 minutes solos. And I think maybe sometimes he thought they were too long, but he never told Coltrane to stop. So again, now that kind of blue album that has been mentioned by each of the panelists is of course it's one of the most extraordinary records in jazz history. And it's a very accessible record for people to get into. And that was recorded at the very end of the association that Coltrane had with Miles Davis. In fact, I'm sure a lot of people recognize it, but only months apart were the recording of kind of blue. And then Coltrane's one of his quintessential records, which is called Giant Steps. And they're completely different styles of Coltrane's playing. But they were recorded very close to each other. It was just that Coltrane was able to work. You know, that's most of those great musicians were in a different idiom. So that may be one of the greatest. I would like to say one thing though, which is that one of the things that I learned, we did the documentary on Miles during the late 1980s. And this is a period in which Miles was almost

universally maligned. People don't like the music that he put out in the last years of his life. And one of the things that really had deep impact on me is recognizing what Miles was doing. And Miles Davis said he had taken a five -year cocaine retirement. So he not only was he not playing the trumpet, which means that he lost a lot of the musculature in his mouth. And it was very difficult for him to pick the horn up again in 1980. But he also was taking drugs like a fiend for the entire time. So for him to come back with his whole legacy of Miles Davis behind him and come out and perform live, playing the trumpet, was in my estimation a great act of aesthetic and artistic bravery. And determination. the first music that he put out was not really that good. I mean, the things weren't that

successful. But he was confident enough to keep trying and trying. And the one thing that I saw and the rehearsals that I was allowed to sit in on, which was a remarkable experience, was that Miles would be having some kind of awful days. I remember one day that he came into a rehearsal. He had been riding all over Manhattan in his limousine, trying to avoid Cessli Tyson's lawyers, who were serving him with divorce things. And he really was not having a good day. And the band was hanging around in the rehearsals studio. And he kept calling from the car saying, I'm coming. And then he said, I'm not coming. And finally, everybody had packed up their instruments and were ready to leave. And they got another call and they used to call them the chief. And they said, oh, the chief is definitely coming. Everybody unpacked your instruments. And Miles walked in. And he threw his coat on the floor. It was probably an Issy Miyaki jacket that cost $5 ,000. He just threw it on the floor and stuck his hand out as he walked to the stage. And one of his assistants quickly got his trumpet together and put it in his hand. And he got up on

the stage. And probably 45 seconds after he walked into the room, he was ready to go. And he was completely and totally focused on music. And they were working on some kind of an arrangement of a cameo song, the funk band. And Miles was trying to get the band members to hear the different parts of the song and open it up. And they played the song. And after they played it once, Miles went around back to each one of the musicians. And sang back to them what they had played on the first run -through. And then suggested by singing, he sang ways for them to alter their part or alter their solo. And the level of musical comprehension and memory that he had to recall all eight or nine parts and be able to sing them back instantaneously was really remarkable. And it showed me that he was working very hard on something. And it wasn't that he was just producing pop music to make money, which was the charge that a lot of people leveled in.

So even those muses, that music, and particularly the live sessions, I think are worth going and listening to. 1 -800 -360 -1799 is our number. Lily has been waiting very patiently in Atlanta. Good evening. Hi, go ahead. Yes, I would like to know for some of them to come in on the fact that was the drug taken in that particular era of the 50s or whatever, a fad that was that there was so much pain in the African American community that the musicians trying to play that music. And they would just take the drugs and sort of mitigate themselves and sort of dull the pain. I happen to believe it was a deeper force than a fad. That's one thing I wanted to say. And the other thing is, how can I get my daughter to lock him at the sheer pearl cleag, mad at Miles, she hates him? Oh, really? All right, Clark. Well, I think that in Ebony

Magazine, when I was doing research, did research in the 50s, early 60s about drugs and musicians. And that's always been a part of the American experience and especially the musical experience. I think that a lot of the musicians did have addictive personalities. Also, we have to take that into consideration. And that was a considerable amount of pain. I've known other creative artists like the poet, Etherish Knight, who came back in one many awards. But he came out of Korea with Shrapnel in his back and they used morphine on those soldiers of that generation and they developed drug habits. But I think the addictive personality also, we have to take into consideration. I want to say one thing about Miles, not the digress. And the word comes from my amuse. Miles also began to sketch and paint in various periods of his life. Miles was a quintessential artist. And I think all of this fed into and helped him deal with the so -called demons that were pushing him. But also, as Steve pointed out, Miles is intellect. And Miles is creative. Muse was just so overwhelming. If his muscles hadn't come back from

those years of cocaine, champagne, and cognac, he talked about in the 80s, Miles may have started to paint or write books. Or, you know, Miles may have gone into designing cars. I mean, that was just how intelligent he was. Louis? I do agree. I think that's a very good point. Miles was a multifaceted person. And as far as the drug thing, yes, it is complicated. You know, in the performing arts, in general, there's a lot of drug use. You know, think about Hollywood actors. It seems like the other day, you see a story about where has someone soap in for the past 10 years? Well, they're just recovering from some cocaine problem. So I think that performers, there are many parts of it. There's addictive personality because some of the musicians, as I mentioned to you, that I met who were around in the 40s that I tried it, but I didn't get hooked. And then there is certainly something about being a black person in this society. And then I think there's something about being a performer who has to be on night after night. Certainly. Dan, what about this man at

Miles' book by Pearl Cleague? Well, you know, I to piggyback a little bit off of what Lillian said, but first of all, I think that the whole drug scene when it comes to the arts, if you will, and certainly Miles Davis is very unfortunate. And for any of the artists that may deal with that, I just wish that they would lift themselves up the best way that they can through treatment or counseling or whatever to move forward to continue to put out great art. But this met at Miles, I too found it really, really hard. And still to this day to be quite frank with you, to champion a person that had such use of domestic violence. As a woman, I think that I'm very sensitive to that. And Miles, for whatever reason, dealt with that. And Pearl wrote about it. And of course, Pearl Cleague, one of our very

talented and gifted playwrights in Atlanta, laid it out and we had talked once about it. And she also found it very difficult to continue to challenge or champion someone that so blatantly and so just in an awful way. Very much so abused women. I'm coming a little back into it because I found when I listened to tunes like kind of blue or any of the compositions from that particular CD or album. And I listened to my funny Valentine, some of the really beautiful music that Miles created and was a part of, it is always very, very befuddling to me how such beauty could come from a man whom unfortunately is not alone in this area. But since we are talking about Miles Davis, he could be engaged in that. And I guess I'll ever be befuddled by that and will have to engage myself slowly in terms of getting back into him. Okay, you're listening to PowerPoint. Joy,

John and Marcus hang with me. We'll have more in just a moment.

You know, all of a sudden make them hits. My funny valentine, all those kind of things. I mean, he was constantly moving to other areas that a lot of artists wouldn't touch. You could see him growing. And to some people, he grew to the point where he outgrew a lot of people. I mean, musically, he was so far to the left that I know a lot of people just, they just didn't understand it all. You know, by the time he got the bitches bruved, for example, I mean, he left a lot of people behind. You know, I mean, even some musicians were like, man, he has really gone out there, you know. But I respect an artist's right to be able to change, especially somebody like him. You know he's not going to play the same music he played in 1963. It's not going to happen, and you shouldn't expect it of him. And welcome back to PowerPoint. I'm Carmen Burns. You were just listening to George Duke, speaking of Miles being on the cutting edge, experimenting with different avenues of making music, and also his fusion era. We are

talking about Miles Davis. We're joined by Peabody Award winner and producer of the Miles Davis radio project, Mr. Steve Roland, also joining us by phone, Professor of Music at Rutgers University and Consultant for the Miles Davis radio project, Dr. Lewis Porter. And in our PowerPoint studio from Affiliate WCLCFM here in Atlanta, Deb Moore, producer and program host of Midday Renaissance and also from WCLC, Associate Professor of Sociology at Morehouse College, as well as musician and program host, Dr. Clark White. And we always encourage you to phone in with your questions or comments. Our PowerPoint hotline number is 1 -800 -367 -3601799 -1 -800 -3601799. Let's go to John in Atlanta. Good evening, John. Hi, Carmen. I just wanted to acknowledge your interview with Cornell West. And I believe Miles was mentioned during that interview about forwarding

the entire race in a very good way. And I'm personally, and I know that life experience can really add texture to your playing. And your guest really has answered a lot of my questions concerning. John, excuse me a second. Do you have your radio turned up? It, I'm on a cell phone. Okay, you're kind of breaking up a little bit. Okay, go ahead. Just ask your guest. The life experience that Miles experienced throughout his life was so varied. And it reflected in so much of his work. Just how important generally is the life experience to the greatness of an artist? All right. Thanks for your question. Let's throw that out to Louis or Steve. You know, it's a complicated question. Because obviously your life goes into your art. But it's not necessarily in a way that

you could predict or that necessarily makes sense. For some reason, the example comes to mind right now to me is Mozart. When Mozart's mother died, he wrote one piece of music that was rather serious and A minor piece. And people always say, oh, you can tell he wrote that because his mother died. But within a week, and the same week, he also wrote a whole bunch of very happy pieces. And I think one of the things that we need to realize is that as professional musicians, we are performers. And, you know, you can get into a piece of music regardless of what's happening in your private life. So, for example, if my funny Valentine, when Miles plays it is supposed to be kind of somber. And he's in a somber mood, he'll get into that. But if the next tune is a fast blues, he'll get into that too. That's part of what you need to do as a professional musician. Okay, let's go to Marcus in Philadelphia. Good evening, Marcus. Good evening, everyone. As an improvising musician, I just wanted

to add and bounce off each one of you the idea of a couple of things. And sort of remind you maybe of a couple of things that Miles said, choice phrases in different interviews. There was this one PBS program I do not recall the name, but Bill Cosby appeared in it and it showed some of his latter work, as well as actually the entire span of his career in different areas. But one thing that he said that really stuck with me that I think that anyone who needs to open their minds up to be able to absorb the music of his different eras is music is like food, that's one. So you take what you want on your plate and leave the rest aside. And there was another thing he said which I think may have been in the biography with Quincy Troop, which was that he saw shapes when he played. And that for me is a very significant thing because as an improvising musician myself, there is a geometry, an internal invisible geometry, that I think all improvising

musicians create and maybe adhere to. And it's something very significant and profound that if you can get with this kind of this way of thinking and take music out of the context of just the business or just a recreational thing, you can see Miles' music as one entity rather than all these disparate parts that many people look at it as. That's interesting. Thanks Marcus for your phone call and your insight. Let's go to Monty very quickly in South Carolina. Hi Monty and thanks for holding. Hi, how are you doing? Great, go ahead. I just wanted to comment on, you know, a lot of people say that he left his music behind as he moved into the more fusion era. And I think that if he would have stayed with that music kind of blue and things like that, you can hear him moving in seven steps to heaven, things like that, that he had hit a glass ceiling and there was nowhere else to go. So

the fusion was boiling and I had heard somewhere that it might have been in the Kenburn PBS series that he had taught the sliced stone and he found out how much sliced stone made for a concert and what he made was not the same. So it kind of threw him into that genre and also made him think differently about what he's like earlier in the show you said, his respect for Jimmy Hendrix, James Brown, Prince, and he decided that maybe that was an area that he could explore further. And also the comment of the rampant drug use to his career, I know that in his later years that he suffered a lot of pain but I know that as most musicians, there is a thinking of the fire and a carrier of the flame and that sometimes will almost destroy a person as well as make the music or make the person. Monty,

listen, I got to let that be the last word. Thank you so much. When did Miles leave us? How long ago? September, 1991. 1991. Yes. And we talked about a domestic abuse and everything, but Sisley Tyson was with him. Wasn't she? Well, she wasn't married to him but I thought that she did help take care of him. They may have been friends Steve or Lou named them more about that. They had already been divorced. Right. She was not directly involved with him as he was dying. That's what you're at. That's what I was. I had heard from someone that there was some sort of involvement. I don't think so. Okay, but quickly Steve. That wasn't there either. Okay, but let me let everyone know how they can hear the Miles Davis radio project. Is it being rebroadcast or can they? I can answer that. It's being a rebroadcast here on Jazz 91 .9 as a matter of fact, we started airing it last Thursday at 12 o 'clock high noon. But nationally. We need to know nationally. I know in Atlanta it can be heard on 91 .9 but nationally Steve. It's being

distributed nationally in honor of what would have been miles of 75th birthday which is actually made 26. Okay. Not to 25th with all those some controversy over that. But it's going to be on over 350 outlets all over the country. I got to let that go Steve. I'm so sorry. We're running out of time. You're listening to PowerPoint. Thanks everyone for being with us. Steve, I'll be back. Deegan.